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Haruna
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Gary



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:59 am    Post subject: Haruna Reply with quote

Hi Guys,
does anybody have any details of the Japanese battlecruiser Haruna being mined in 1918? I have seen it written that it was near New Zealand. Any ideas where she was repaired? ANy photographs of damage?
cheers Gary.
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: Boston

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know nothing at all of this incident. Whose mine was it? Australian? I did not know any German ships had time or capacity to mine waters down there in the early days.

Tell us what you know of it, Gary?

tone
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Gary



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Further info Reply with quote

Hi Tone,
several web sites that mention Haruna mention that she was mined in the Pacific in 1917, for example:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/japan/japsh-h/haruna.htm
"While in the south Pacific in 1917, she was damaged by a mine laid by the German auxiliary cruiser Wolf." Whilst another site says similar:
"Haruna, according to two sources, was damaged in the South Pacific on a mine laid by German raider 'Wolf'. Mines were laid by the raider in mid-1917 off New Zealand, the east coast of Australia, and Singapore, but this incident needs confirmation"
The mines were laid off Cook Strait, NZ and off Gabo Island in Bass Strait. The Gabo barrier damaged the steamer 'Cumberland' which had to be beached, but I can't find details about Haruna, but believe she was damaged on the Cook Strait barrier. If she was repaired in NZ then perhaps there are photographs of damage over there.
I have a map of 'Wolfs' progress and the general areas of the mine fields. If you want I can scan it and send it to you.
best wishes Gary.
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maxyang



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Shanghai, China

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about the history, but I do know there are people who may know well.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ has a lot of stuff related to IJN ships and try the forums at
http://two.guestbook.de/gb.cgi?gid=395918&prot=ivenmt
http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?board=5.0

They should be knowledgeable about the topic.

Max
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely try contacting the people at combinedfleet.com
They focus on WW2 operations, clearly, but may know some more or know who can help from the Japanese side.

Certainly post back when you learn more.

tone
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USS ALASKA



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not with my books right now but...

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyJapanese.htm

Haruna, according to two sources, was damaged in the South Pacific on a mine laid by German raider 'Wolf'. Mines were laid by the raider in mid-1917 off New Zealand, the east coast of Australia, and Singapore, but this incident needs confirmation

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/japan/japsh-h/haruna.htm

While in the south Pacific in 1917, she was damaged by a mine laid by the German auxiliary cruiser Wolf.

http://www.bobhenneman.info/Kongohistory.htm

IJN Haruna

WWI Service:
Damaged by German mine in South Pacific

http://www.lostbattalion.com/t-bb_Kongo.aspx

Kongo saw little activity during World War One but, in 1917, her sister Haruna was damaged by a mine in the Pacific laid by the German raider Wolf.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4442/is_200607/ai_n17183469/pg_4

In September of 1917, she suffered moderate damage from a mine laid by the German raider SMS Wolf.

However…

http://www.combinedfleet.com/haruna.htm

Authors' Note:
*Some sources claim that in the summer of 1917, while on a training exercise in the South Pacific, HARUNA hit a mine and was damaged severely. She flooded, but managed to make port. The sources claim the mine was laid by Fregattenkapitän (later Kapitän zur See) Karl A. Nerger's Imperial German Navy commerce raider/minelayer WOLF. Other sources say the mine was laid by raider BERLIN. No photographic evidence of the damage, or any record of repairs is known to exist, which casts doubt on the veracity of this event. In fact, Mr. Nakagawa Tsutomu, a well known Japanese naval historian, states that HARUNA never hit a mine at any time during her career.


Anyone know the story behind this? The one web site claims two sources but then fails to list them. What source was used to get this started?
Thanks.
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USS ALASKA



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted on another board...

There is certainly no photographic evidence of this event that I know of.

However, looking through my photo database of this ship, there is a gap in photos of this ship between 1916 and 1919, but that by itself is not highly incriminating as there are other gaps in her career as well i.e. notably between 1923 and 1928.

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USS ALASKA



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another gent on another site posted this;

The two sources the Henneman site refers to are probably the generally good Jentshura et al "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy 1869-1945" and "Conway's...1906-1921". But, I'd tend to go with Combined Fleet's more specifically sourced statement that it's not true. Ishibashi's recent huge book on Japanese BB/BC's "Ship's Data IJN Warships 1868-1945 Part 1 Battleships and Battlecruisers" also gives the same basic chronology for Haruna's career as the Combined Fleet 'TROM', with ops off China in April 1917 but apparently otherwise in Japan and no such incident noted.
"The Kaiser's Pirates" by Walter is a good book on the raiders, detailed as to victims especially, merchant ships are usually under-covered in books about anti-commerce naval action. It also doesn't mention it, and Wolf's minefields in the Pacific were laid in Australian/NZ waters (besides those in the Indian Ocean, which sank a Japanese merchant ship among others). The Japanese did send some warships as far as NZ in 1914 to help hunt German cruisers but they didn't normally 'exercise' there in that period, just Haruna's presence there in 1917 would have been better known in the West all along if it was true, I think.
It clearly wasn't Berlin, which never left European waters. That might be confusion with the minefield it laid which sank the British BB Audacious in November 1914.


I'm TDY at the moment and away from my books. I have "The Kaiser's Pirates" and "The Cruise of the Raider Wolf", by Roy Alexander at home and was going to check them as soon as I got back. I was also going to give "Jane's Fighting Ships of World War I" a shot but that will probably only disappoint me again.

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USS ALASKA



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And finally....

I have seen no Japanese sources confirming that mining story either. In fact, Haruna was nowhere near that area in 1917 and she certainly was not dry-docked during that same time frame. Such incident is not mentioned in "Battle History of IJN Battleships" by Kimata Jirô (1983). There are several dedicated articles on naval accidents of that period, such as "Accidents of Japanese Naval Vessels" by Aoki Eiichi in SOTW No. 528, pp. 69-98 -- nothing there. The JACAR website has an extensive collection of IJN prewar accident reports, but not on that one.

There was a discussion of that same topic a while ago, when Mr. Alexander Förster suggested that the "mining" of Haruna might have been a result of her being confused with a New Zealand steamer called WAIRUNA, which was in fact captured and sunk by Wolf II. It certainly would not be the first case of a major IJN vessel's name being "misperceived".

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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Haruna being captured and sunk by Wolf II would have been deeply embarrassing.

tone
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rubberboot



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
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Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the book "Battleships of World War 1" (Anthony Preston), under careers he also mentions Haruna being mined 'mid 1917', and being repaired at Sasebo.

Glenn
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tone
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubberboot wrote:
In the book "Battleships of World War 1" (Anthony Preston), under careers he also mentions Haruna being mined 'mid 1917', and being repaired at Sasebo.


I suppose at this juncture, however, that any citation he required might have to be aired. Despite his vaunted credentials, attribution seems necessary on a point that seems to possibly be a naval legend.

tone
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Harley



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presotn unfortunately did not cite the source for his info on "Haruna"'s mining.

Every Preston book I have (his warship type books from the early 80s and the afore-mentioned Battleships of World War I) is without footnotes or endnotes, which is a pain because so many people are willing because of his reputation to take his every statement at face value.

Harley
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USS ALASKA



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two other responses...

WARSHIP PICTORIAL #13 (IJN KONGO CLASS BATTLESHIPS) section on the history of the Haruna mentions this incident on page 56. As quoted below:
"She would be the only one of her class to suffer any damage during the First World War. Haruna struck a mine, believed to have been laid by the German auxillary cruiser Berlin, in the summer of 1917. The damage was severe, almost sinking her, as the flooding was extensiive."

No exact date, but that is another angle on the subject.


And...

The article cites "major damage", which is not recorded anywhere in the ship's records, from mines laid by a ship that never got into any of the oceans Haruna was in during the war.

Looks like they got their faulty info from the same incorrect source as the other articles... but at least those other articles got the name of a ship that actually could have laid such a mine.

Still not anything even close to raising doubt in the ship's records.

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rubberboot



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, Japan was (like Germany) bombed back to the stone age, and they were probably very efficient at destroying useful infomation, lest it get into the hands of the enemy. It doesn't help this occurance happened 90 years ago, so chances of finding accurate info is slim.

What ever became of SMS WOLF?

Glenn
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