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Manuals I have... and those I want!

 
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:37 pm    Post subject: Manuals I have... and those I want! Reply with quote

I have a few physical copies of manuals of various types, and xerox copies of others from friends and from the UK's National Archives.

I'm sure there are other people out there with copies of manuals I lack, and I invite you to pipe in with a greeting here.

For a list of those I have or a non-exhaustive sampling of those I know I am interested in, check out

http://dreadnoughtproject.org/docs

tone
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andy303



Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Grahan Navyphone Reference Reply with quote

Tone: I love your site! In reading the details you posted on the Manual of Torpedo Drill, you mentioned the Navyphone. I found a reference (in fench) to the Graham Navyphone used on the Titanic. I do not know how smilar these would have been to those used by the RN. Here is the link: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/titanic/page68.htm

A question: On large warships like the Dreadnought did the Torpedo Lieut. assume control over the helm to make course corrections before firing? In studying Mr. Roberts wonderful book, I see that there are engine telegraphs and a wheel located in the Signal Tower, along with three Directors each side. Where the fore and aft directors on each side meant for the specific fore or aft tube on that side?
Best Regards,
Andy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The image is a great one, and bears a strong resemblance to one image from my book. I will scan a few in and post another reply. I am very happy to learn more about this stuff, as adding it to my sim would be great.

You can see why an image like this is so helpful, as the small line drawing I have does not lead you to believe that the device will actually look this comical.

There were many different types of navyphones, and I'm not sure that all were this odd shaped. I think this might be what the RN calls a pattern 2461, judging from the drawing.

The cabin photo they show is what the RN called a pattern 2462. Oddly, in the image, it appears to be mounted sideways from the drawing in the torpedo manual, where the handset would hang on the left side with the mouthpiece on top (so this image is rotated 90 degrees clockwish from what just may be a variant mounting of a flexible sort of device). I have to say the Titanic image seems a more comfortable arrangement to keep the handset from leaping off.

I am not entirely sure what a torpedo officer would or would not do to achieve a shot. I believe instantly that if he could see he was within a degree or two of having a shot and he was located in the conning tower (as he often was... I really have little idea why they called the aft tower a torpedo control tower... perhaps design vision and realities differed), he would simply ask if the helmsman could deviate enough to make this solution for him, and then oversteer back into the line. If he was in a remote location, perhaps he could do this by telephone.

Experience shows, I think, that the very notion of adding torpedoes to battleships was a bankrupt notion in WW-I. As it turned out, the shots were all likely to be at extreme ranges where the best you could hope to do (due to enemy maneuver during the lengthy run) is arrange to cross his line of battle. I think the torpedo, as a capital ship weapon, had the same unwarranted longevity that kept the ram bow in fashion even as guns became much more rapid in rate of fire and could hit reliably at 4+ miles.

tone
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stupid buggy BBS software does not actually leave me logged in. I wonder if I should remove the "anyone can post without registering" bit?

The aft control tower was a fallback steering position for use should the forward one get damaged or lose its connections to the steering. I am not sure if they would command a switch for a torpedo aiming shot, but they could simply command a zig-zag of a few degrees and accomplish their shot as the sighting wire passed the target. They did not need a very stable course to shoot.

I don't know why they had 3 places for a director back there on each side, but with 5 torpedo tubes, she had to have 2 on each broadside, so that explains it in part. One use would have been that at any given time, perhaps one station had an obstructed view, but certainly they'd want two if they wanted to fire a pair from the same beam in rapid succession (which, oddly, they seem seldom to have done)

If you watch my second torpedo aiming video, you see this being done from the rear tower of HMS Queen Mary, though John Roberts informs me that she had director stations in her forward tower, which might be a better vantage point though I'd think not, as on any parallel course of battle your target is likely to be off your quarter.

A clever device called a "tangent bar" accounted for the difference between the torpedo tube's position and that of the sight.

tone
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ddc292



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Directly relevant to your project is "Gunnery Drill Book for His Majest's Fleet (Books 1 and 2) "Instructions for power-worked guns". My copy of book 1 is "corrected to August 1913". The books are literally manuals - they fitted inthe palm of a hand. Book 1, G21159 / 13 runs to 632 pages and book 2, G 33374 / 18 (dated 1918) runs to 252 pages. They are what they say they are - drill manuals and concern themselves with the turret drill - how the guns were brought into action and kept going - i.e. the basic drill the crew carried out through thick and thin.

E-mail me to discuss how we can share the information.

I have the successors to this manual as well, the inter-war edition and a WW2 manual.

P.S. Please abandon MOV files and Apple Quicktime as your distribution vehicle - there never was a more troublesome piece of software.
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ddc292 -- I would love it if I could induce you to prep a page in the form of a similar notes page already on the site. I would add them. It is a pain to jot down such dry things as a table of contents, but I hope you'll see the value others can take from it worth while.

I'm sorry if the movies proved difficult. I know I have chosen poor codec settings. What specific problems that you encounter are attributable to Quicktime as opposed to another viewer?

I do all the work I *can* on a Mac now, and so this was the convenient choice, but perhaps I could transcode to AVI or other format before posting them.


tone
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dust



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tone wrote:
I'm sorry if the movies proved difficult. I know I have chosen poor codec settings. What specific problems that you encounter are attributable to Quicktime as opposed to another viewer?

I do all the work I *can* on a Mac now, and so this was the convenient choice, but perhaps I could transcode to AVI or other format before posting them.


tone


have a look at http://www.videolan.org/

hope that helps :D
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks .. that is a good player and I've updated. I wish that they had a tool for transcoding movies into other formats, with special controls to help you achieve the best compatibility with other systems. For instance, I'd love to have a tool which looks at your movie file and says, "Your Quicktime movies should play without problem on 85% of Macs, and 55% of PC's, but other PC users will be forced to upgrade Quicktime or install it for the first time. If I converted this to a .FOO movie, Quicktime would still play it, but so would WMV, and this would reduce the griping to just 5% of Windows users and 20% of Mac users"

I think I'll put a link to VLC on the movie page, in the meantime.

tone
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have added several entries, some with notes:

Gunnery Instructions U.S. Navy 1913
Handbook for Fire Control Instruments 1914 (UK)
Grand Fleet Gunnery and Torpedo Memoranda on Naval actions 1914-1918
Gunnery Drill Book for HM Fleet (Book I) 1913
Gunnery Drill Book for HM Fleet (Book II) 1918

I have the following on order:

Range tables for HM Fleet, 1910
Range tables for HM Fleet: 9.2" guns and above
Progress in Naval Gunnery, 1914-1918
Flotilla Signal Book 1913
Handbook of Torpedo Control, 1916

I'll be sure to post those details when I have received the documents

tone
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OnkelWou



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont know if this helps but i wanted to show you this site i found through the strategy game pacific storm ... etc ... doenst matter how i found it ;)

the site u might wanna look at

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/n0000000.htm
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I know that site for sure. It is the best single WW-I naval site out there.

Bill Schleihauf runs it -- it was he who challenged me to attempt a simulation of the dumaresq and the Dreyer Fire Control Table (for which I've yet to forgive him).

tone
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