The Dreadnought Project

[David Wooley]

Hi All I am a newbe to the site but have been involved with building large scale model warships for many many years. I am coming to the end of my present project { 1:96 model of the Russian armoured cruser Rurik] and am researching for the next project the Japanese battleship Mikasa. Does any on the list know of a good source for plans. Any help is always appreciated.
Thanks
Dave Wooley

[Weird Guy]

I tried looking around and did not find any good reference material about that ship. All that I could come up with was that it is the only Japanese pre-dreadnought ship that Japan still has preserved, and played a major role in the Russian-Japanese war.

Sorry, but that ship might prove difficult. The only thing I can suggest is looking for plastic model kits including blueprints, and try to get them from Japan itself. I would try looking for a direct import hobby website and buying one.

I think Hasegawa models may be a good start, and they will be offering a Mikasa model soon.

http://www.hasegawa-model.co.jp/e-w/E-index.htm

[tone]

David... Weird Guy's answer sparked my thinking. Mikasa was built to a Vickers design, and (I think?) in the UK. It is possible that the National Maritime Museum's plan annex in Woolwich has builder's plans for her. If so, you could not ask for a better resource.

A link to contact them is on the sources and links page.

tone

[Michiel de Ruyter]

I've searched through my reference collection and I found something, but it's about 12mb and it's in Russian... but I'll upload it somewhere if you're interested :)

[Umanski]

To look on http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/MK/2004_08/index.htm http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/
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[David Wooley]

Thanks for all your help . My original intention was to scratch build but I see that a model manufacturer in the UK, Deans Marine market a 1:96 scale kit of HMS Magnificent . Looking at the Mikasa the design is close enough to allow for modifications , Do you think this would be a feasible project? Also as a point of interest what was the maximum effective range of Mikasa's 12inch guns at Tsushima?
Dave Wooley

[Weird Guy]

Effective range was probably similar to the guns of other navies of the time period, which might be easier to find data for.

I understand that the US Navy ships could fire at long ranges, but didn't believe that they could hit anything unless it was 2000 yards or closer. This is about 1.5 miles, more or less. The time period in question is the Spanish American war. The guns were also aimed from the turrets, and not a control room in the belly of the ship. Even the HMS Dreadnought didn't have centralised fire control until near the start of the First World War.

[tone]

It appears that this page describes Mikasa's guns:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_12-40_EOC.htm

Max range (?) 15,000 yards at 15 degrees elevation


After the R-J war, these were replaced with these weapons:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_12-45_EA.htm

This could reach 23,100 yards at 20 degrees elevation


I was unable to find a British gun closely in agreement with the first mentioned, but the Navweaps site has much good data and I'd trust what they say.

tone

[Weird Guy]

Now the question is if that 15,000 yard range is the effective range or the maximum range. I think it is maximum.

Effective range is where you can expect to hit something you are aiming at, and that is why I mentioned the 2000 yard range before. The guns of the Spanish-American war could fire much further than that 2000 yards, but all aiming was done by eyeball and telescope from inside the turrets. The old fashioned way.

It should also be noted that the range of gunfire was linked to the range of contemporary torpedoes as well. Part of the reason for long range gunnery was to never be close enough for enemy torpedo boats to launch their torpedoes. Torpedoes were the equalizers of their day, similar to missile launching boats of today, and were used by minor or developing countries to try and compete with their larger enemies.

[tone]

The Navweaps.com site would list maximum range on the gun at the given elevation(s) -- their focus is on guns and mountings and not necessarily on the context of doctrine and sighting equipment that of course impacted the actual use of the guns in battle.

It is worth noting, however, that the ships at Tsushima did open fire at range in excess of 10,000 yards in spite of the fact that this greatly exceeded former doctrine. More surprising -- they hit at such ranges! Many conclusions were drawn from this experience (by navies all over the world). As I recall, unanimity in these conclusions was not a result, particularly as to whether large guns or intermediate calibers on the broadside achieved teh greater result in damaging the enemy.

Bill Madison and his friends at http://russojapanesewar.com/ might have some more data on how the sighting methods of the day interacted with the guns native "reach" in the important contests of the war.

tone