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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 479
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Back to the task Reply with quote

I recently dusted off my Java code and am moving it to a still-living 3D engine (JME3). It may be some time before it is ready to do, and I have to update a lot of art.

I'll let you know when I have something to show.

tone
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Harley



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The word "Yay" comes to mind.

Simon
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 479
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a rudimentary glimpse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woRnXRH_F0

Obviously not yet up to the standard of 2005, but it can get there and further; especially with modeling help.


My initial effort has been on getting first person walk-around going and learning how to convert my existing assets to Ogre3D .obj files (which JME3 can import).

The ballistics code is largely ready, likely with some new bugs.

need to get 3d/2d sound working
need to get "drops" working (masks for when you look through a telescope, for instance)
need to get chat interface working or something better

rough priorities I am considering, trying to emphasize getting something working quickly:

1. I need to get mouse picking working, and allow you to assume duties by clicking on the device in question.
2. Get 4-in gun working with AI crew supporting single player
3. Allow ships to steam around and minor fixes to their motion in the water (not aiming for anything but a realistic amount of angular motions)
4. Ensure that shell hits and misses can be tallied and ballistics are roughly working
5. Ship Captain AI so ships can jink about and zig-zag while player does other things
6. smoke from stacks and shell splashes

Then, things really start to open up. Basic choices run along these lines:

1. get torpedoes and the torpedo director working?
2. rework clumsy old UI (see torpedo director and dumaresq videos for example) in favor of ones where you "directly manipulate" the things with mouse
3. bring up rangefinders and the many things from the Queen Mary (Dreyer Table, data instruments, wireless, etc)
4. secret stuff!
5. Multiplayer?
6. Get real textured models in place, using outside artist help

tone
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Beatty



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So did you basically scrap your previous code? While this build is obviously much more raw it seems to have a much higher frame rate.
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I am bringing the old code back up to speed.
Changes in the underpinnings prevent it from all coming together at once.

I am not happy with the deck walking code right now. I need to break that to fix it again. There's no static friction at all, which means when the ship steams ahead, you slide aft and fall over the transom.

No one ever writes physics code correctly for anything but special cases, which explains why every game is exactly the same.

tone
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tone
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slow going. I have destroyers cruising around and bobbing -- poorly -- on an invisible ocean.

A quick test to put two in there at the same time to see that they were moving, by having one at slow ahead and the other at full ahead seemed to fail, but then I realized the test was actually a success -- the AI helmsman noticed that his telegraphs weren't set as he'd been ordered and he advanced them!

A further test shows that while the text chat system has no visible UI, if I stand next to the AI helmsman and give an order, he acts and I see the telegraphs move and the wheel turn and the ship responds.

Some terribly wacky rolling of own ship while it turns. I hate 3D math!

Trying to choose between

1. getting a rough ocean in place again
2. getting clicking on things to take charge of them working
3. getting the gun up and running (which will really want shell collision detection working, and hit effects and splashes... not eager to do that yet).

tone
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Iain



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go in the order you listed.

I'm stoked to see you working on this again.
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NewGolconda



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Adealide Aus

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My best wishes and encouragement go with you.
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tone
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been slow, but there has been progress.

I can type commands to call the ship to action stations, and a stirring, authentic RN bugle call sounds out (sound is a new wrinkle in the new incarnation)... over an accelerated period of several seconds, sailors appear at the 4-in gun for trainer, layer, "powder monkey" (an abstraction of all loading duties), and sight setter.

They are ugly as sin -- a monolithic navy blue, owing to a poor art path. Art path will remain a problem until an artist steps up and says, "I have no life... I will help you succeed."

Once mustered, they are responding nicely to my typed commands ("train green 90", "load", "range 5000", "up 200", etc). I can step into any role and simple keyboard controls function to drive the things the sailor controls... e.g., when you are the layer, up and down arrow keys elevate and depress the gun, and shift increases the rate of motion -- "enter" fires the gun if it is loaded and ready. The trainer has left and right and shift keys for training the gun. The sightsetter has all arrow keys and shift key to adjust range and deflection, and R and D keys cause his view to focus on the range and deflection dials. I forget the loader's UI, as I mostly tell the AI sailor what to do, by saying, "load" -- 6-7 seconds later, all is set. Who wants to actually be a loader, after all? Simple stuff, but largely ok.

I need to, at the moment, step in to the Layer position to fire the gun, as bugs prevent my from clicking on the other ship to select the target and allow them to continually fire upon it. The shells are not presently flying at all, either.

I have the following up and running:

1. very poor HMS Acheron model
2. 4-in guns
3. crew for 4-in guns, crewed with layer, trainer, sightsetter and abstracted loading numbers -- all work via user action or AI
4. ship's wheel
5. engine telegraphs (driving a super-simplified engine model)
6. Magnetic compass with gimbaled dial (indicates true, however)
7. Forbes log (ship's speedometer)
8. AI helmsman able to operate 4-7, unless user takes these tasks


tone


Top priorities are now:

0. resolve mousepicking issues for target selection and role choosing
1. get shells flying along ballistic paths
2. model shell/ship/sea collision
3. create visible interface for chat -- spoken communication is a central component of everything
4. create a visible water surface of marginal but illustrative wave action
5. make sure ships bob about on the water in marginal, but ballpark fashion

Once the above are ready, I feel I have something I can allow others to play around with. At most, it would be a recruiting tool.

Successive steps:

1. Wireless -- this is nice when it is in, as the UI actually allows you to enter Morse code. Nothing cooler than to tap out "AR steer north" and to see HMS Ardent then turn north!
2. torpedo/tube/director
3. Searchlights, other times of day, and sea states, etc
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tone
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Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A fair bit of coding today, as I finally learned how to rotate something about a pivot point that is not its origin.

It's great to see frame rates are about 10x what the old engine could deliver.

Video shot today.

tone
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tone
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Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have resolved mouse-picking and added a cleaned-up SMS Kaiser to shoot at. The gun crew works the gun autonomously, except for firing which is done by my typed command. All the duties shown have a player-operable interface, as well.

I think the sighting angles are wrong and wonder if this are bugs in my ballistics code or something having to do with sampling rate for the physics cycle.

video of 4-in gun firing on SMS Kaiser

tone
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Beatty



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I miss the projectiles landing? I love seeing the motion of both ships, very cool
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tone
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The visual effect is tiny at the moment.

tone
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Beatty



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I did see it on the second look. I watched the 31 minute director fire video (again) which is probably one of the neatest youíve made to date and itís got me wondering: if you had a full size studio working on your project and you implemented all the detail you envision, what kind of limitation would have on the simulation based on a typical high end desktop? For instance Iím sure youíd be limited in the total number of ships in a scenario so Iím guessing being able to recreate Jutland in full scale would be problematic. I hope this doesnít come across sounding critical because I love the detail and I think you should stick with it, itís more of a curiosity.

Brad
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tone
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a full studio and a big budget, just about anything is possible.

Good work takes time, but there are so many things I'm doing at present that could be farmed out to independent coders and artists. My water surface is ok, but could be better.

I need to get ship definition OUT of the mainline coding effort... it's vital to a complete end-user experience, but not an interesting and limiting problem. I don't intend to create more than my old Queen Mary (or similar), Acheron, and a target dreadnought like Kaiser unless others join in. One man can't make a Jutland battle happen, but he can perhaps demonstrate what it should be and get others to push the breadth of the authoring ahead.

I'd kill to have a coder, ideally one expert at the mechanics of creating a game and fairly disinterested in naval anything.

I am discovering more that is in place and working.

Latest progress:

1. Ballistics were broken (drag was being ignored). Now it is working again, more or less, and shells fly as the sights are set. I can peg the Kaiser at 4,000 yards on most shots with the sights set at 4,000 yards, whereas before the shells were flying to 6,000 yards when sights were at 4,000

2. The gunners do understand /independent(enter) and this causes them to undertake sustained fire against the enemy. I am not sure I have these modes of fire properly defined, but good enough for now.

Things to do

1. Working on getting shell splashes working and perhaps also to make a better shell impact visual effect.

2. I miss the shell woosh sound I had working so nicely in 2005. I want to get that back!

3. 2D masks with crosshairs for the telescopes, etc

4. Complete ocean surface visible is essential. It takes 3D smarts I am poor in, but you need an ocean!

5. Wireless was a nice means of ordering the ships around. This was the only part that had actual networking in it in 2005. I even had a phone app and a Java app that could send morse code into the game environment. It was Nerdvana. I don't need that back just yet, but being able to send messages between ships helps vary the gunnery problem. For instance, you could in the 2005 sim, stand on the destroyer and tell the wireless operator "/send KA steer north east" and he would hear this and use his key to tap out "KA steer north", which the wireless operator on SMS Kaiser (callsign "KA") would copy and upon receiving it, shout it aloud and upon hearing THAT, the helmsman would turn the wheel to take up the commanded heading. Again ... roughly the way games SHOULD work and none actually do.

tone
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