The Dreadnought Project Forum Index The Dreadnought Project
Naval History in the years 1890-1920
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Reg1sterReg1ster 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The two Turkish battleships built in England

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Dreadnought Project Forum Index -> Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bart150



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:47 am    Post subject: The two Turkish battleships built in England Reply with quote

I've noticed several historians of Turkey in WW1 writing that the Sultan Osman I, built for Turkey on Tyneside, was the most powerful dreadnought in the world, that could blow any other dreadnought out of the water. This irritates me because I doubt that it is true.

The Sultan Osman I had 14 12-inch guns, and a ship of the contemorary British Iron Duke class had 10 13.5-inch guns.

I'd back a ship with 10 13.5-inch guns to blow one with 14 12-inch guns out of the water, but that is just a feeling. If you agree, could you give me a simple explanation of why it is so.

BTW If it is true that an Iron Duke was more powerful than the Sultan Osman, it would follow that the Reshadieh (which gets much less attention), which had 10 13.5-inch guns was also more powerful than the Sultan Osman.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rubberboot



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rio de Janeiro or Sultan Osman I (or HMS Agincourt) had thin armour protection and out dated main armament. The Reshadieh (or HMS Erin) on the other hand, was a product of designers freed from the constraints of the Admiralty (naval construction). She was based on the Iron Duke class, but improved on (No 3 Turret was carried a deck higher) and better protected. HMS Agincourt had been a record setting ship - longest battleship, most number of main armament guns, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
bargami



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Richmond, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding "Sultan Osman I," the Brazilian ideal, when that country was taking designs for what was then "Rio de Janeiro," was to have this vessel with 14" guns, which would have required a larger-displacement, and more costly, warship. Now "that" dreadnought might have been a menace, if the design adjusted for 14 14s was successful. The Brazilian minister of marine was apparently talked down to a 12" gun by representatives of Krupps, hoping to get the main armament order. They convinced Admiral Leao (not the minister responsible for the original order and interested in economizing) that the Krupp 12" was superior to any larger gun he could get from an English firm. Krupp didn't end up getting the order but the 12" adjustment down remained.

Here's something to bear in mind. Even as "Sultan Osman I" came out, as purchased by Turkey from Brazil, an arguably under-protected behemoth with last-year's caliber guns, this more than fit the bill for the Ottoman Empire's purposes. The Turks bought this dreadnought in expectation of a war with Greece to recapture the Aegean islands she had lost in the First Balkan War. This loss had been largely as a result of losing the naval war to the Greeks. This war was expected by much of Europe to break out in the summer of 1914, about the time the First World War actually did. The Turks already had a battleship building at Vickers ("Reshadieh" you mention), and a second dreadnought, as Turkey saw it, should guarantee victory in a Greco-Turkish naval war, especially as the Greeks had been later off the mark in getting their dreadnought effort going, so that theirs wouldn't be ready before 1915-1916. Two-dreadnoughts-to-zero: pretty good odds.

bargami
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Dreadnought Project Forum Index -> Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group